Newbie looking at progressing to collective pitch OMG!

[mrfog]

Greetings

First post so be kind
A few month s ago I bought a V911 just to mess about with but instead I got quite into flying the thing around the house and generally taken with helicopters and flight theory in general and have been studying and reading up. I then decided to buy a Twister 400 Sport and gradually I am getting better and better and doing basic manoeuvres and getting 4 chans down pretty well.
I thought I was ready for 6 chan collective so I got hold of a copy of Realflight 4 and gave it a shot. Oh my god I was all over the place. I'm gradually getting better but I just wanted to ask is a collective really that different ?
I am only using my crappy controller with the sim so that may be an issue, I intend to get a dx6i.
Also what would be a good cp to start with ? I have been looking at the Belt CP, Blade 130x and Walkera Master CP.

Thanks.

edit: It seems the my cyclic is not returning to centre in the simulator heli even though in the controls setup screen they are. If I give full right cyclic then let go for example the heli just keeps going right

[Fatboyslimfast]

Re: Newbie looking at progressing to collective pitch OMG!

This is the biggest thing to get your head round, you have to stop your manoeuvre by applying opposite stick so to stop going right you have to move to the left. Best analogy I heard was imagine a ball bearing on an upturned bowl, you have to constantly keep moving the bowl to keep the bearing in the centre. Honestly once you get the hang of it it gets easier, I've gone from a MSR to a Mcpx to a 130X and now I'm onto my 450, bigger is better

[iceuk]

Sounds about right mate regarding flying a 6 channel, its quite different to a 4 channel heli.

First question would be what is your budget, then I can giv you some suggestions.

[Fatboyslimfast]

Re: Newbie looking at progressing to collective pitch OMG!

If you can get hold of a Mcpx (personal preference) you will learn a lot. Smaller helicopters are very twitchy so you will learn a lot very quickly.

[tomatwalden]

Greetings

First post so be kind
A few month s ago I bought a V911 just to mess about with but instead I got quite into flying the thing around the house and generally taken with helicopters and flight theory in general and have been studying and reading up. I then decided to buy a Twister 400 Sport and gradually I am getting better and better and doing basic manoeuvres and getting 4 chans down pretty well.
I thought I was ready for 6 chan collective so I got hold of a copy of Realflight 4 and gave it a shot. Oh my god I was all over the place. I'm gradually getting better but I just wanted to ask is a collective really that different ?
I am only using my crappy controller with the sim so that may be an issue, I intend to get a dx6i.
Also what would be a good cp to start with ? I have been looking at the Belt CP, Blade 130x and Walkera Master CP.

Thanks.

edit: It seems the my cyclic is not returning to centre in the simulator heli even though in the controls setup screen they are. If I give full right cyclic then let go for example the heli just keeps going right

Hi MrFog!

The difference between Fixed Pitch (ie. 4 channel) and Collective Pitch (6 channel) isn't really that big in theory. The controls are the same, it's just that the climb or descend rate is controlled by blade pitch rather than rotor speed.

The problem you're finding is that the V911 is designed for beginners. It has a 45-degree balance bar above the main rotor blades. The thing about 45-degree balance/flybars is that they make the helicopter inherently stable. That is, if you let go of the cyclic, the heli returns to a stable hover.

Some 4-channel fixed pitch helis (eg. the Blade mSRX) don't have this 45-deg flybar and therefore don't exhibit this stable behaviour. There are no collective pitch helis with 45-degree flybars.

The result is that you must constantly "fly" a collective pitch heli. If you give an input right, the heli will continue right until you give a counteracting left input. Just returning the stick to the middle will have little or no effect. This does make collective pitch harder to fly, but not massively so. It is however what means that CP helis are so manouverable, and fun to fly.

Personally, I started with a 45-deg flybar model (Blade 120SR), but progressed to collective pitch with a Blade mCPX.

Stick with it! - it does come remarkably quickly. But do yourself a favour - get a decent TX (the DX6i is a good, solid beginner TX) and something like an mCPX, or 130X to continue your progression in collective pitch!

Stay away from 45-degree flybars!

[tomatwalden]

edit: It seems the my cyclic is not returning to centre in the simulator heli even though in the controls setup screen they are. If I give full right cyclic then let go for example the heli just keeps going right

Yes! - Welcome to the world of collective pitch!

[tomatwalden]

PS. If you haven't already - watch the "flight school" videos on RC Helicopters, The Most Fun And Rewarding Of All RC Hobbies.

[mrfog]

Ok this is great news, thank you everyone. As long as I know I am training right and not wasting my time.
My budget is maybe up to £200 bnf. Are the 3 helis I am thinking of ok for a collective beginner ?
Belt CP, Blade 130x and Walkera Master CP.

[tomatwalden]

If I may be so bold, do not touch a Belt CP with a 50 foot barge pole. They are utterly terrible. In fact, a Belt CP would set you back months ..

Avoid anything Walkera - there's only one distributer in the UK (buzzflyer). For micro helis, stick to Blade products - I've lost count of how many places sell Blade products in the UK, and the parent company (Horizon Hobby) has a UK arm based in Essex.

For £200 BNF - my recommendation would be a DX6i transmitter with a Blade mCPXv2 (not the BL version) or a Blade 130X. Probably avoid the nano-CPX as that is incredibly twitchy due to its very small size.

Take a look at the following stores - all reputable, all sell good stuff - all know what they're talking about if you phone them to ask questions!

Midland Helicopters (New Arrivals | Midland Helicopters Ltd)
RC-Hero (RC Hero - All your RC needs in one place! Specialists in all things RC. Align, Blade, Losi & Many Many More.)
Fast Lads (Fast Lad Performance)
Align-Trex.co.uk (ALIGN-TREX.co.uk, Specialist supplier of kits and spares for ALIGN, Goblin, EFlight, ALeeS, ELYQ and Synergy RC Helicopters - ALIGN-TREX.co.uk - ALIGN-TREX.co.uk RC Model Helicopter Specialists in ALIGN, E-Flight, Blade, Goblin, Synergy, ALeeS, Outra)

Best of luck! - Tom

[mrfog]

If I may be so bold, do not touch a Belt CP with a 50 foot barge pole. They are utterly terrible. In fact, a Belt CP would set you back months ..

Avoid anything Walkera - there's only one distributer in the UK (buzzflyer). For micro helis, stick to Blade products - I've lost count of how many places sell Blade products in the UK, and the parent company (Horizon Hobby) has a UK arm based in Essex.

For £200 BNF - my recommendation would be a DX6i transmitter with a Blade mCPXv2 (not the BL version) or a Blade 130X. Probably avoid the nano-CPX as that is incredibly twitchy due to its very small size.

Take a look at the following stores - all reputable, all sell good stuff - all know what they're talking about if you phone them to ask questions!

Midland Helicopters (New Arrivals | Midland Helicopters Ltd)
RC-Hero (RC Hero - All your RC needs in one place! Specialists in all things RC. Align, Blade, Losi & Many Many More.)
Fast Lads (Fast Lad Performance)
Align-Trex.co.uk (ALIGN-TREX.co.uk, Specialist supplier of kits and spares for ALIGN, Goblin, EFlight, ALeeS, ELYQ and Synergy RC Helicopters - ALIGN-TREX.co.uk - ALIGN-TREX.co.uk RC Model Helicopter Specialists in ALIGN, E-Flight, Blade, Goblin, Synergy, ALeeS, Outra)

Best of luck! - Tom

Thanks Tom
That mCPX sure is small though I was hoping for something at least as large as my twister 400. I did mean £200 going just on the bird alone. At the same time I don't want to be arrogant and of course I would be a fool to ignore the advice I get here.
Any suggestions for something a little bigger ?

[Mutley2]

I think the Mcpxv2 is a great start, I love my 130x but you need to put in a bit of time with them to keep them flying well. Blade all the way for a starter IMO

[Ritchieme]

Re: Newbie looking at progressing to collective pitch OMG!

Please do yourself a favour, don't go near the belt CP or any Esky it really will hold you back or put you off for life. Im relatively a new pilot myself (about 15 months) but i have bought a LOT of heli's only to find throwing money at it doesn't help. If I could turn the clock back I would go DX6i, Phoenix and mcpx V2 BNF, the mcpx is £79 at the moment with a charger and 2 batteries.

One thing that helped me was to see a competent pilot hover my mcpx virtually dead still in all directions, that made me realise it's nothing to do with the heli its all down to me, up until then it was just my brother and me trying and buying different helis and spending a fortune.

You mentioned the V911, i have one and its a cracking little heli i believe there is now a V922 which is a collective pitch similar to the mcpx, don't know much about it but its about £60 ready to fly.

Good luck and stick with it, unless your one of the gifted few, you will get frustrated, annoyed and crash but trust me that first 10 second hover without crashing will put a grin from ear to ear :-)

[BavarianRob]

Newbie looking at progressing to collective pitch OMG!

Hi and welcome,

Firstly, I also got the bug from a 4ch cheapo heli and then got myself an mcpx v2 which I crashed into everything in the house and gave a couple of the wife's pot plants haircuts! So I understand where you're coming from.

My advice, keep practicing on the sim and get an mcpx v2 or a nano cpx with a DX6i (you can get one of these helis and the DX6i for well under £200) you can easily use these in the house or outdoors, but it will need to be REALLY still for the nano; it is very small but mega durable.

Once you've got hovering in all orientations sorted you can safely move on to something bigger in the knowledge that you won't bankrupt yourself due to crashes! You can also practice backwards and inverted etc as your skills progress with the mcpx/nano before trying it on your bigger heli.

130X are great and fly 'bigger' but they won't fair well if crashed too regularly while learning and they do need some tweaking to keep running smooth which could get annoying if you end up doing it more than flying! Certainly worth considering once you've got hovering sorted though.

After that well, the only limit is your budget! (I ALWAYS go over that too!)

Let us know what you get and keep us updated on your progress.

Cheers

Rob.

[mrfog]

Well thank you everyone. I have pondered all the advice and I think you have all saved me money and sanity.
I've just ordered a dx6i and a mcpx v2. I figure I can fly whenever I like with this in the house and more practice means I get better quicker. When I crash there will not be too much (if any) damage. CP here I come.

[tomatwalden]

Thanks Tom
That mCPX sure is small though I was hoping for something at least as large as my twister 400. I did mean £200 going just on the bird alone. At the same time I don't want to be arrogant and of course I would be a fool to ignore the advice I get here.
Any suggestions for something a little bigger ?

Ha! - I see you got an mCPX - good choice! Trust me, the mCPX will fly the pants off the Twister 400! Whilst you're still getting to grips with CP, it really is a sound move. When you've got it nailed, the DX6i will stand you in good stead for a larger heli!