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  • Wobbles Help please

    Hi guys, Really hope you can help me with this cos I am lost to know what to do next.
    My Raptor 30 has got the wobbles quite bad,, I have changed the main shaft and the feathering shaft ( also packet it with grease ).

    Put new blades on it ( not too tight ), also I have upped the head speed, seems fine but when I take off the tail end starts to wobble, When I push the stick to the left it stops untill I let go.
    The gyro is a 401 and seems quite sensitive so it looks as if that is working fine.

    I would take it to the shop but he can not do anything this side of Christmas . And I have checked the belt as well which is ok but just for the hell of it, I am changing it Monday with a new boom and rollers to see if that sorts it out.

    Any help chaps and I would be very greatful, thanks

  • #2
    When you say the tail end wobbles does it wobble side to side, or wags as its more commonly known? If so the the gain on the gyro may be too high.
    Raptor 50 v2 - OS 50 Hyper - Spartan Quark - DS 650 - DX7
    Raptor 50 Titan SE - Redline 53 - Spartan DS 760 - DS 650
    Mini Titan e325 - Spartan DS 760 - 6100e - Huey Fus
    Phoenix
    Holder of 2 EGS
    Need a DJ? www.soundmachinedisco.co.uk

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    • #3
      If it's a slow side-to-side wag then the gain might be too low, if it's a fast wag it could be too high. The 401 has
      a pretty wide 'sweet spot' so it is usually quite easy to get a workable gain setting.

      What tail servo are you using?

      In my experience the Raptor tails are usually not much trouble but the linkage needs to be as smooth
      as possible. The Raptor tail linkage is never just silky smooth there's always a bit of resistance
      from the guides the pushrod goes through. One thing I discovered is that the plastic guides
      can 'catch' a bit sometimes and the cure for this is to very gently reem each side of the hole
      with an exacto knife, just enough to put a very slight bevel on the inside of the opening on
      both sides, this keeps it from grabbing if the guide rocks a little bit (hopefully you can
      visualise what I mean).

      I always feel how smooth the linkage is by disconnecting the link from the servo and moving
      the pushrod to feel if it binds or anything. There is generally an optimum placement
      of the plastic pushrod guides where it all moves as smooth as it can. Once you find
      the best position for them then make sure they cannot move around. I usually put some
      clear tape on the boom where the guides go so they fit snug once I find the best
      placement.
      Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
      Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
      Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

      member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
      Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

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      • #4
        Hi, The servo on the back is a S9404, Its not a slow wag, its a super fast wag and quite scary lol.
        I was looking for the gain on the 401 the other day but was not sure which one it was as I do not have the manual, I have just had a look on the net so I take it the control delay trimmer is the gain.

        I just put a new boom on and another tail rotor off another heli , still did it, I will give the gyro a turn tomorrow see if that sorts it out hope so, all the linkages seem to be fine.
        Thanks for your help, I will let you know tomorrow what happens.

        Comment


        • #5
          No the delay is not the gain. The gain is set from the TX. There are two connectors going into the GY401, one
          of them is the rudder channel, the other is the gain control and it is usually connected to the gear channel
          on the TX.

          On the face of the 401 there are two switches and two rotary pots. from left to right they are;
          switch1 = DS (digital servo) on is up and down is off. With the 9404 servo I think it should
          be set to 'off'.
          switch2 = DIR This is for the direction of the gyro 'sense'. This one is set correctly on yours
          or it wouldn't be a wobble it would be spinning wildly.

          Pot1 = Delay. This is for slower servos that cannot react fast enough and may result in a bit
          of a bounce on hard stops, the delay helps prevent the bounce.
          Pot2 = Limit. This is for setting the maximum throw of the servo so that the tail slider
          can go as far as possible but the servo will not try to push beyond the limits and
          start binding.

          The S9404 servo is a bit older and is not up to the standards of modern tail servos
          so it's hard to say how good it can get. I would think it will work for very basic flying
          but ideally a faster servo will give you a lot more holding power.

          Now, back to the gain issue again. What transmitter are you using? There may be
          different ways to adjust the gain depending on the TX features.
          Last edited by trillian; 02-12-2011, 06:37 PM.
          Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
          Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
          Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

          member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
          Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

          Comment


          • #6
            In the manual, set the delay to 0 for fast or digital sevos and that is what it was set at, I did turn it up but it did nothing..
            Yes in my manual for my transmitter ( futaba 2.4 ghz ) set the gyro for the 401 which I did but I did not like it cos when you push the rudder stick it does not go back to the middle by itself.

            Also in the manual it says Sensitivity switch ch5 ( up position ) Gyro +80% and switch down 60% normal mode,, should I try this then ?? ,, what is AVCS when the switch is up ??.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Michelle View Post
              In the manual, set the delay to 0 for fast or digital sevos and that is what it was set at, I did turn it up but it did nothing..
              Yes in my manual for my transmitter ( futaba 2.4 ghz ) set the gyro for the 401 which I did but I did not like it cos when you push the rudder stick it does not go back to the middle by itself.

              Also in the manual it says Sensitivity switch ch5 ( up position ) Gyro +80% and switch down 60% normal mode,, should I try this then ?? ,, what is AVCS when the switch is up ??.

              Yeah, the delay is not the problem so changing that is not likely to do anything noticeable.

              The key is the gain channel. AVCS is heading hold, which is what you want. The GY401
              should show a steady red light when heading hold is activated. Don't worry about the
              gyro not going back to the centre when you release the stick, this is normal.

              I am not familiar with the Futaba TXs so cannot help there as to exact settings
              but basically the travel adjust on the channel where the gyro gain is connected
              will determine the gain setting.

              This sounds like something that would ideally be helped greatly by going to
              a local club and having an experienced heli flyer look at it because it's
              not so easy to build a puzzel piece by piece on here when all this stuff
              works together and everything affects everything else. It sounds like
              if the mechanical setup is correct that it might just be a gain issue
              but we could be chasing this around in circles if other things need
              adjusting as well.
              Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
              Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
              Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

              member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
              Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

              Comment


              • #8
                I am betting it will solve it tho cos I have tried everything else, anyway I like it to centering by itself cos its what I am used to .
                So your saying put it in AVCS mode which is 80 %, what is ACCS ??,, you know I can not fly 3D

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                • #9
                  Oh yea the red light stays on...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I get it, been having a read :-) Well I will give it ago tomorrow if I can, thank you for both of your help, very greatful.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It sounds like you're probably close. The idea of heading hold is bascially that the gyro will try its best to keep
                      the tail right where you left it until you actually move the rudder stick. It should not be drifting one way or
                      the other by itself and for me this is an intuitive way to fly. Some people like rate mode because the tail
                      will 'wind vane' in forward flight and swing around in turns etc. but to me this is very annoying. You can see
                      how this works by trying some of the scale helis in Phoenix.

                      To begin setting the gain you could start with the 80% figure and then if you're getting a fast wag
                      back it down a bit, if you get a slow wag or the tail feels 'mushy' and not holding solidly then
                      bring the gain up. I usually do this a few clicks at a time and see what happens. Hover a bit
                      and if you have a wag then land, change the gain one way or the other and lift off again
                      and see if you're making the wag better or worse etc. usually just a few bits of trial and error
                      and you're there. Just watch very closely, anytime you're changing things with the tail, when
                      it starts to get light on the skids if it looks like it's going to spin around then something
                      is wrong.

                      With the GY401 the servo travel limit is set for both directions by the one pot on the gyro
                      so you have to watch the pitch slider for the maximum travel both ways and adjust
                      the linkage mechanically. Just make sure the servo is not binding at the end points either
                      way trying to push the tail slider farther than it will go.

                      I don't know what ACCS is :-o




                      Originally posted by Michelle View Post
                      I am betting it will solve it tho cos I have tried everything else, anyway I like it to centering by itself cos its what I am used to .
                      So your saying put it in AVCS mode which is 80 %, what is ACCS ??,, you know I can not fly 3D
                      Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
                      Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
                      Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

                      member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
                      Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good man thank you, you have fixed my problem yyyaaaa lol. Hovers really nice BUT can I pick your brains a little more .
                        After a few minuets of hovering, it starts losing power and just drops down to the ground :-(
                        I have turned the screw both ways to make it rich and also the other lean, still losing power.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          hi michelle, my rappy 30 used to loose power when it got hot on 10% nitro so i upped it to 20% and now its fine
                          Raptor 50 v2
                          Raptor 50 titan se
                          Raptor X50n to go in sea king fuz
                          Raptor 90
                          dsx9 mk2
                          600 size Sea king being built
                          Bo-105 in red bull colours waitng to be built

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                          • #14
                            Hi Dave, my mum lives at Malton so not far away from you, in my younger years , I used to go drinking at sunny Scarborough.
                            I am already putting 20% fuel in it, to be honest, its turning into one big headache this heli, looks brand new also the engine but I don,t no what the last person was like with it as I got it off the bay.
                            I am thinking of just putting a new engine in it Monday so I know its good, it just dies after a few minuets even when you give it more throttle nothing.
                            Anyway its a big learning curve.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              it defo sounds like an overheating problem but someone else may have other ideas but as it came from fleabay you may be wise to invest in a new engine
                              Raptor 50 v2
                              Raptor 50 titan se
                              Raptor X50n to go in sea king fuz
                              Raptor 90
                              dsx9 mk2
                              600 size Sea king being built
                              Bo-105 in red bull colours waitng to be built

                              Comment

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