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  • HB61 Tuning

    Bell 212 D-HOPP

    Finally got round to flying D-HOPP instead of just looking at it. It is fitted with an orginal HB61 and it took me two hours of adjustments to get it to fly. The engine starts with just a flick from the starter but after about 30 seconds seems to flood so unless I can get it run up to speed by then it just stalls. It also runs through a very rich quarter stick setting before finally getting up to hover revs. I have it set slightly four stroking at this point as trying to lean it off any more causes it to get hot in the hover.

    I know the HB61 is sensitive especially with the type of carb fitted but this is a bit of an anoyance. It is gravity fed and I was considering changing it to an exhaust pressure system which tends to even out the fuel flow. Anybody tried this or any mod to the carb or even fitting a later model carb. I intend to keep the original engine but would like a little more confidence in its running......

    By the way, it flies perfectly and apart from a 'soggy' collective response it can be thrown around (upright of course) very well. I was suprised how controllable it was and how stable given that the weather conditions were not too good with variable and gusty winds that bounced about my T-rex. I also managed nose in with a rate gyro side on to the wind so I was impressed with it.

    It also goes to show that it wasn't the helicopters that were difficult to fly when I was younger; it was me being crap at it.................

    Joe

    PS no I havn't tried it without a gyro yet as I need to get a bit more confidence in the engine; also I will get video if I can find someone to do it when I next go flying......
    Attached Files
    www.vrhc.co.uk


  • #2
    What mechanics are in there? I don't recognise that rotorhead.
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    • #3
      if you pressure feed the original carb you may run into a problem of it being very over rich/flooding all the time
      i would look at the os50 carb to see if it fits to run a pressure fed system
      i've got an os50sxh non hyper carb (i think its the 40e carb) on an os61sfn and it runs great, the engine ran like a sack of c**p with its own carb
      Hirobo Turbulence D3
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      • #4
        These were originally fitted with Perry carb, IIRC. The Perry can work very well, but there are some very fine slots in there which are prone to blockage!

        Q1: What fuel are you running? It is unlikely to be happy on any significant quantity if nitro! 10% absolute max, and preferably straight, I would recommend. I use Bekra straight in my HP61 in the DS-22.

        The Perry has two adjustments - a main needle, which does pretty much what you would expect, and a brass disc, which is the "idle" adjustment. There is a slot on the disc, and at least one mark on the carb body (later ones had three, I seem to recall, representing normal and limit adjustments).

        Lining the slot in the disc up with the middle (or only) mark gives you the factory default mixture setting. I always found they wanted to be SLIGHTLY richer than this - slot moved towards the clutch - but only a little. Its a VERY sensitive adjustment.

        There are some rubber "O" rings in there that might have perished.

        The only likely source of spares is John Haytree. As an alternative, he can probably supply a Kavan carb, which was used by many back in the day!

        Both the Kavan and the Perry require extremely clean fuel. The idle passages block easily!

        I would also suggest using a hot plug - OS 8 or Enya 5, or possibly even an idle-bar plug, due to the inverted engine.

        Hope this helps!

        They do fly extremely well! Nicest handling of the "original 3"!

        --
        Pete
        Last edited by pchristy; 21-06-2010, 07:41 PM. Reason: typo
        Pete

        No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by trillian View Post
          What mechanics are in there? I don't recognise that rotorhead.

          That's the original Graupner mechanics and rotor head. Not pretty, but very effective!

          --
          Pete
          Pete

          No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the input.

            Some of the problems were an 'own goal' as I now realise I brought the wrong gallon of 'straight' fuel with me. The new one is still at home and this bottle, well it looks about 10 years old and the 3D-NT engine would not even run up to speed on it....Doh

            I ran it with 5% and changed from an Enya 3 to an OS 8 which did seem to help and concur with the settings. Straight up and it runs but cuts out and does need to be slightly forward to run rich.

            I always run my fuel through a filter pick-up but the engine has been stood around for quite a while and though well oiled I think a clean and maybe polish with brasso to ensure good surfaces might be productive.

            Really must get my original Kavan up and running so that I have a flying version of the original 3..............

            Thanks Joe
            www.vrhc.co.uk

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            • #7
              Finally it runs OK ish with 10% nitro and Idle bar plug. reackon the carb was 'gummed' a little as every flight it got better until now I can carry it to the flight line and run it up without it cutting out. It runs slightly 'popping' rich but is reliable and a surprising good flyer. Even is quite high gusty winds in behaves itself and will hold side on though does struggle to the left somewhat.
              I did try it out gyro-less which was OK into wind but trying to turn (effectively flying backward) was hit or miss - look forward to a calmer day to try it out like it would first have been flown.
              So i now can keep it standard or fit a heatsink head and an OS carb. Actually as I have two of these I think that D-HOPP will stay like this just for historical reference and 'Katchina' will get upgraded when I fit the rebuilt engine.
              Thanks to all who have commented and it will all go into the website for future reference. Hope to have video proof this weekend.
              Joe
              www.vrhc.co.uk

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              • #8
                Excellent! Yes, the Perry carbs are prone to blockages, and also to the rubber "O" rings deteriorating as well. If you want a "period" alternative, look at the Kavan carb. This was fitted by many in that era and is an excellent carb.

                Keep up the good work!

                --
                Pete
                Pete

                No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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                • #9
                  Thanks Pete

                  Unfortunately I have not as yet been able to find a period Kavan carb, though will keep looking. Next projects will be the fixed pitch Cobra and flybarless Kavan Jetranger. Hope to have them serviced and flown by the end of July.....

                  Joe
                  www.vrhc.co.uk

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                  • #10
                    John Haytree has (new) Kavan carbs in stock!

                    --
                    Pete
                    Pete

                    No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Pete

                      I keep forgetting about John as he is not on the web; will give him a call.

                      Joe
                      www.vrhc.co.uk

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                      • #12
                        New Perry carburators can be bought from here if needed: Perry Pumps - Carbs
                        HB61 is listed and the carburator for it seems to be part# 1300 there.

                        /Bo

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                        • #13
                          Excellent link!

                          Many thanks!
                          Pete

                          No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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                          • #14
                            Excellent, I didn't think they made them any more... As a note I have found a Kavan carb and Katchina is 90% ready for testing. I hope to have this one plus D-Hopp and an SX-81, Cheyenne, and about a dozen other oldies with me at the Autumn Charmouth (I will not be on leave again until then). I can carry that many as I treated myself to a Vauxhall vivaro before joining the ship a month ago so now I am a 'Black' van man..... Goes with the hat....

                            Regards Joe
                            www.vrhc.co.uk

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