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Vbar with Align T Rex600 head problem

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  • #1

    Vbar with Align T Rex600 head problem

    Hi

    Anyone else on here running a V Bar,Align 600 FL head and Align DS610 servos?

    My T Rex was flying fine with the previous setup and I have now fitted a different head and faster servos.

    I have reduced the ball distances on the servo arms to 21mm and am using the Futaba `Star` arms and have the balls mounted on the inside of the arms as usual.

    Problem is when anything much more than hover pitch is applied and then cyclic moved the ball links seriously bind on the servo cases - even try to bend the push rods.

    I can`t move the balls to the outside of the arms as they they touch the canopy - even though this would cure it I think.

    Using the Align swash I have calculated the Collective Gain for the V Bar at 83 which may be OK.

    Any ideas?
    Attached Files
    Minicopter Diabolo - V Bar v5.3, Kontronik Kosmik 200 and Pyro 750-56 .
    JR Vibe SG E12 Hiroki Ito Edition,Scorpion Tribunus 200A ,4525 Ultimate Motor,Spirit Pro,Full Telemetry,Jeti Rx,JR SL series servos.
    RJX Vector 3D Speed - V Bar v5.3 Pyro750-56 Comp Kontronik Kosmik 200
    T Rex 700N DFC, OS 105HZR, JR HV servo's, Spirit FBL system.
    Miniature Aircraft Furion 6 CGY750 KDE 600XF G3
    T Rex 600N DFC V bar v5.3 & YS60SR
    DJI F550 multicopter coming soon.
    Blade mCPX - now Version 2
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I don't use any rubber grommets on this heli, with JR 8915. Balls are on the outside, and there is a 5 to 10 mm space between balls and canopy.
    Woohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo -Barbra Streisand

    Comment

    • #3
      Heres mine,they do bind but mine are Ok until this amount of travel.

      Limited the travel in my cyclic ring at that point,my cyclic gain is 95.Cyclic ring is 50,agility is 40.It flies Ok or at least i think it does

      TBH i am tempted to try the Align fbl horns as supplied with the 3g.The holes are much further out but the 3g flies good on it so im sure with the correct settings the V Bar would too.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by ChrisB; 10-04-2010, 11:02 AM.

      Comment

      • #4
        >> Using the Align swash I have calculated the Collective Gain for the V Bar at 83 which may be OK.

        Note: You calculate the cyclic gain, not collective. Probably that's a typo, though :-)
        Woohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo -Barbra Streisand

        Comment

        • #5
          Yeah sorry typo error
          Minicopter Diabolo - V Bar v5.3, Kontronik Kosmik 200 and Pyro 750-56 .
          JR Vibe SG E12 Hiroki Ito Edition,Scorpion Tribunus 200A ,4525 Ultimate Motor,Spirit Pro,Full Telemetry,Jeti Rx,JR SL series servos.
          RJX Vector 3D Speed - V Bar v5.3 Pyro750-56 Comp Kontronik Kosmik 200
          T Rex 700N DFC, OS 105HZR, JR HV servo's, Spirit FBL system.
          Miniature Aircraft Furion 6 CGY750 KDE 600XF G3
          T Rex 600N DFC V bar v5.3 & YS60SR
          DJI F550 multicopter coming soon.
          Blade mCPX - now Version 2

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by GravityKills View Post
            I don't use any rubber grommets on this heli, with JR 8915. Balls are on the outside, and there is a 5 to 10 mm space between balls and canopy.

            Yeah I thought about not using the grommets when I tried the balls on the outside earlier on in the week.This would give the required clearance.

            Thing is surely the vibration would kill the servos in the end.

            Regarding the Cyclic gain calculation that has been worked out - does that value need to be entered in the V bar software and does this make any difference to the servo throw.
            Minicopter Diabolo - V Bar v5.3, Kontronik Kosmik 200 and Pyro 750-56 .
            JR Vibe SG E12 Hiroki Ito Edition,Scorpion Tribunus 200A ,4525 Ultimate Motor,Spirit Pro,Full Telemetry,Jeti Rx,JR SL series servos.
            RJX Vector 3D Speed - V Bar v5.3 Pyro750-56 Comp Kontronik Kosmik 200
            T Rex 700N DFC, OS 105HZR, JR HV servo's, Spirit FBL system.
            Miniature Aircraft Furion 6 CGY750 KDE 600XF G3
            T Rex 600N DFC V bar v5.3 & YS60SR
            DJI F550 multicopter coming soon.
            Blade mCPX - now Version 2

            Comment

            • #7
              Hello,

              yes, put that value into the V-bar software. As far as I remember, the cyclic ring is applied before cyclic gain. In other words, cyclic throws should scale with the CG value, but not collective.

              The number is only a reference for the V-stabi software, so that it knows, how many degrees of cyclic pitch it commands.

              It affects the following, which you can tweak again after changing CG:
              * the cyclic servo throws via the cyclic ring parameter (check for binding)
              * swash gyro sensitivity via the "sensitivity" parameter on the control panel, or called "gyro gain" under the main rotor page in the PC software
              Woohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo -Barbra Streisand

              Comment

              • #8
                The current CG is 100 as inputted in the V Bar software - it is not my calculated value and It now looks like I will need to change it.

                I have never actually touched it when the heli was set up with the other head and servos.

                I never bothered with a CG calculation when I first started and I used a T Rex 600 preset right from the start with the V Bar.

                The cyclic ring I have also never ever touched on either of my V Barred helis.
                This is not mentioned a great deal anywhere when setting up - is it?
                Minicopter Diabolo - V Bar v5.3, Kontronik Kosmik 200 and Pyro 750-56 .
                JR Vibe SG E12 Hiroki Ito Edition,Scorpion Tribunus 200A ,4525 Ultimate Motor,Spirit Pro,Full Telemetry,Jeti Rx,JR SL series servos.
                RJX Vector 3D Speed - V Bar v5.3 Pyro750-56 Comp Kontronik Kosmik 200
                T Rex 700N DFC, OS 105HZR, JR HV servo's, Spirit FBL system.
                Miniature Aircraft Furion 6 CGY750 KDE 600XF G3
                T Rex 600N DFC V bar v5.3 & YS60SR
                DJI F550 multicopter coming soon.
                Blade mCPX - now Version 2

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by GravityKills View Post
                  Hello,

                  yes, put that value into the V-bar software. As far as I remember, the cyclic ring is applied before cyclic gain. In other words, cyclic throws should scale with the CG value, but not collective.

                  The number is only a reference for the V-stabi software, so that it knows, how many degrees of cyclic pitch it commands.

                  It affects the following, which you can tweak again after changing CG:
                  * the cyclic servo throws via the cyclic ring parameter (check for binding)
                  * swash gyro sensitivity via the "sensitivity" parameter on the control panel, or called "gyro gain" under the main rotor page in the PC software
                  +1

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Malc1 View Post
                    ...
                    I never bothered with a CG calculation when I first started and I used a T Rex 600 preset right from the start with the V Bar.

                    The cyclic ring I have also never ever touched on either of my V Barred helis.
                    This is not mentioned a great deal anywhere when setting up - is it?
                    As long as you use the proper geometry for the preset, you should be fine with the default cyclic gain.
                    Personally, I would check it in any case, since it is among the most important parameters for a well-flying heli.

                    Set the cyclic ring as follows:
                    - Put collective stick to the upper limit: the highest pitch you use in flight.
                    - push the cyclic stick to 12 o'clock (straight up) to the limit
                    - gently rotate the rotor a full turn and watch the swash plate carefully. Does it twitch (mechanically)? If so, there is binding and you risk a link popping off in flight. Reduce cyclic ring
                    - push cyclic to 1 o'clock, as far as it goes, and do another full turn
                    - repeat in all directions
                    - repeat for full negative pitch

                    A typical cyclic ring value for a cyclic gain of 100 is 70.
                    Woohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo -Barbra Streisand

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      All sorted

                      Cyclic ring reduced to stop any binding and CG reduced to the calculated value.

                      Flys a treat - much nicer with those faster servos.
                      Minicopter Diabolo - V Bar v5.3, Kontronik Kosmik 200 and Pyro 750-56 .
                      JR Vibe SG E12 Hiroki Ito Edition,Scorpion Tribunus 200A ,4525 Ultimate Motor,Spirit Pro,Full Telemetry,Jeti Rx,JR SL series servos.
                      RJX Vector 3D Speed - V Bar v5.3 Pyro750-56 Comp Kontronik Kosmik 200
                      T Rex 700N DFC, OS 105HZR, JR HV servo's, Spirit FBL system.
                      Miniature Aircraft Furion 6 CGY750 KDE 600XF G3
                      T Rex 600N DFC V bar v5.3 & YS60SR
                      DJI F550 multicopter coming soon.
                      Blade mCPX - now Version 2

                      Comment

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