I was considering trying my 450 pro on a flybarless setup using a Mini V Bar and just wondered if anyone is running their 450 of any make on any FBL setup and what their thoughts were..

I cant find a great amount of info anywhere.My main aim is for the possible improved stability and tracking in flight,power increase is not my main concern in this case neither is extra duration.

Found this vid of a Skookum kitted 450 and its mental..

http://www.rremodels.com/media/alan450.wmv

yes it's ballistic (I've got a 450, not the pro). It feels a little bit like a very small .90 heli, because it doesn't pitch up (in forwards flight or when hit by gusts of wind).
However, it's not so nice if you throw it around. For hard 3D you'd need very fast servos - the hitec 5065 I use aren't enough, apparently. Or then, live with the wobble.

For what you wrote - go for it.
The skookum controller has one problem (as probably every other controller that doesn't have a built-in gyro): it starts to drift if you want to spin piros like crazy on the spot. For any real flying, this is completely irrelevant, but I know people who "need" better equipment than this

The Align converted head (with reducer levers) is pretty good. The Sonix head (sportsmoto) is unflyable. It's an almost exact Outrage copy, but they forgot the most important detail, namely the blade grips. I ordered a G5 head, but haven't tried it (don't expect any trouble, though).

Crashes get expensive. Usually one or two servo wheels break (metal), also the Outrage blade grips break easily.

And, if you fly too fast, the FBL control may get instable. That happened to me twice, main shaft bent 60 degrees even before it struck the ground. Always leave enough stability margin, i.e. don't dial up the gain as far as you can. That may be a HDX-specific problem, though, because the unsupported length of main shaft is slightly longer than in stock T-Rexes.

Cheers for that,some great info to go on.

I am thinking of using the Mikado Mini V Bar so i can lose the Spektrum Rx and the gyro to save room and weight.I would need to cut the frames away directly underneath the main gear down to the baseplate so the unit can mount on the baseplate and protrude(if necessary) from the sides as the frames on the Pro are so narrow.

Was thinking initially of the Gaui head but Mikado are doing an upgrade kit for the Align 450`s so that would get first choice.

I have never taken to 450`s although i fully appreciate their practicalities and cheap cost to run.However none of them have ever flown to my liking personally.

Seeing as i am enjoying the V bar`d Logos so much has given me the idea of fitting the system to the smaller helis.They are certainly ballistic enough for me as regards to power and flip/roll rate etc but i would like to make use of the V bars ability to set a flip/roll rate you like but still have any degree of stability you want and its ability to make the model track so much better.

The big unknown for me so far is how it will actually dial in on a smaller rotor disk,certainly in theory you can make it as stable as a big gasser but its all about getting the sweet spot personally that i am looking for.

yes, I think a FBL 450 is just right for you...

You can program any roll rate you like, and it flies like on rails. The wind bumps it up and down, but it always keeps its direction.

I forgot this: get Radix blades. The others I tried were Align CF blades, and they don't work (for me), they aren't stiff enough.
The difference between blades is felt much more than on a flybar heli, there I don't really care.

what else... depending on the head, headspeed etc you may have to tune out a couple of degrees of phase error in the software (on Skookum, maybe Mikado is smarter and doesn't need this).
And, center of gravity is pretty important.

I am currently running the Align blades so would get some Radix as i have read that the C of G on blades is more critical on flybarless setups.I would try the Aligns first though just to see..

I can recommend the Gaui head - Works very well, and not too expensive. Since going fbl, the 450 seems to be steadier and not so jumpy

I have just got confirmation from Mikado that their own head upgrade for the 450 Pro is due very soon so i will wait for this.

They have now released the software presets for the 450 Pro to use in the v4 software which i have downloaded ready so its all falling into place.Wih regards to the servo speed issue mentioned by Gravity Kills the software is set for the 410ms speed but has Hitec 65 and 5065 options to ensure everything works right.

Just need to order a Mini V now,will do that next week

Mikado are saying it will give vastly increase the 450 Pros accuracy,locked in feel,stability in the wind,power and flight time and more importantly it will feel right.

I will reserve judgement on such a small model but i cant complain about my Logo 400 or 500,if it flies anything like those i will be well chuffed.

well, Skookum lets you also set the servo speed.
There are two separate effects at work here:
- 1) the controller needs to slow down large moves to the servo that has the longest travel. Otherwise you get unwanted interaction if one servo falls behind
- 2) A mechanical flybar acting as a stabilizing gyro is "infinitely" fast - after all, it doesn't actually have to move, it simply maintains its position.
FBL tries to achieve the same via electronic gyros and servos, and servos are slow. The slower, the more limited is your "electronic" flybar. This is the bottleneck in my 450 when it comes to dynamics (abrupt recovery from flips, or tictocs, for example).
Slower servos leave you with less stability margin, so you have to turn down gain. As a result, the heli becomes sluggish (or, if the gain is too high, it overshoots / wobbles and may even get instable, buildup of oscillations, which is bad)

Appreciate all the info Guys but i have made a massive change of plan and sold the heli

probably a good choice if you were planning going flybarless on a 450, I did it with the skookum and the one problem you just can't get over is the instability of small heli's. It wasn't nice to fly, the chaos was as good as awful and I hated it from start to finish.